Krzysztof Wielicki

Krzysztof Wielicki is skeptical. “I think they can have a problem because they only slept in Camp 3 and not at 8,000 meters,” answers the Pole when I meet him at the trade fair ISPO in Munich and enquire him about the chances of the Basque climber Alex Txikon on Mount Everest. Txikon, who wants to scale the highest mountain of the world this winter without bottled oxygen, is currently waiting in Everest Base Camp to set off for his first summit attempt. “In my opinion, you should have slept at the South Col, if you want to push to the summit,” says Wielicki. “I wish him good luck, I hope that nothing happens. It’s most important that they’ll come back safely. It doesn’t matter if they climb to the summit or not.”

Wielicki about Txikon: They can have a problem

Empty bottle at the summit

Wielicki (l.) and Cichy after their successful climb

The now 67-year-old knows what he is talking about. On 17 February 1980, Wielicki and his countryman Leszek Cichy had succeeded on Everest the first ever winter ascent of an eight-thousander. Above the South Col, they had used bottled oxygen “We didn`t know that it was possible to climb without,” says Krzysztof. “Our leader [Andrzej Zawada] said, here is the bottle. You have to carry it. One bottle, nine kilos. When we climbed to the summit, we realized, that the bottle was empty.”

Never again with breathing mask

Despite a flow rate of only two liters per minute, the bottled oxygen lasted only for three or four hours. “The mask was frozen. I even didn’t feel that I was using oxygen,” says Wielicki. “It was horrible. I never again used oxygen afterwards.” Even without breathing mask, the Polish climber remained a pioneer. In 1986, he and his compatriot Jerzy Kukuczka managed the first winter ascent of Kangchenjunga (8,586 meters). In 1988, Krzysztof scaled Lhotse (8,516 meters) not only for the first time in winter, but also succeeded the first solo climb of the mountain. In 1996, Wielicki became the fifth person who had stood on all 14 eight-thousanders. Bottled oxygen “is not necessary, if you are well acclimatized,” says the Pole. “That’s the key.”

Wielicki: It was horrible

Still financing problems

K 2

In winter 2017/2018, Krzysztof Wielicki wants to lead a Polish winter expedition to K2, the only eight-thousander that has not yet been successfully climbed in the cold season. The planned financing by Polish government companies has not yet been finalized. “We are a little disappointed with the government”, says Wielicki. “But we fight and I hope that we can overcome the problem.” According to Krzysztof, at the moment 14 climbers are still on his list of candidates, in the end he wants to assemble a team of eight.

Wielicki: I hope we can overcome the problem

“The most difficult challenge”

Denis Urubko

Adam Bielecki, who succeeded the first winter ascent of Gasherbrum I (8,080 meters) in 2012 and of Broad Peak (8,051 meters) in 2013, will surely belong to the team, says Wielicki. And also Denis Urubko, first winter ascender of Makalu (8,485 meters) and Gasherbrum II (8,034 meters): “He wants to go and we want him to join us. I think he will go with us.” Urubko was born in Kazakhstan, but now he has a Russian and a Polish passport. Already in winter 2002/2003, Wielicki and Urubko had been together on K 2, with an height of 8,611 meters the second highest mountain on earth. Wielicki had then also led the expedition on the Chinese north side of the mountain. Urubko had reached an altitude of 7,650 meters before he and his rope partner had been stopped by bad weather and the expedition had been canceled. This time, the attempt is to be made on the Pakistani side of K2. “Either via the Abruzzi Ridge or the Cesen/Basque route, depending on the conditions in the wall,” says Krzysztof Wielicki. “I think, if we talk about winter expeditions on 8000 meter peaks, it is the last and most difficult challenge.”

Wielicki: K 2 the last and most difficult challenge

Gerlinde Kaltenbrunner at the ISPO

It has become quieter around Gerlinde Kaltenbrunner. A fact that she actually likes. The 44-year-old Austrian is still a sought-after speaker. So Gerlinde can not complain about a lack of work. But she has enough time to travel around. Without any pressure – that disappeared after she had successfully completed her big project by climbing K 2 in 2011: She was the first and so far only woman in the world who climbed all 14 eight-thousanders without bottled oxygen. Our paths crossed on Mount Everest in 2005, when she tried (in vain) with Ralf Dujmovits and Hirotaka Takeuchi to climb the North Face and I reported about it. In 2010, she reached the summit via the Tibetan normal route. I met Gerlinde at the trade fair ISPO in Munich a week ago and we talked about Everest.

Gerlinde, you climbed Mount Everest as well as the other 13 eight-thousanders without supplemental oxygen. At the moment there are a lot of discussions about what happens on the highest of all mountains, especially because of the avalanche disaster and the subsequent end of all expeditions on the Nepalese side in spring 2014. The Sherpas revolted. Did this conflict boil up and over?

Probably, the anger had been building up over years, this feeling of the Sherpas that they are exploited. I think something must happen on Everest, the situation cannot continue.

Much traffic on Everest (in 2012)

Who is required?

Both sides need to rethink. Even though I never used the support of Sherpas on my expeditions, I know from talking to them that they appreciate the expeditions, because they benefit from it. I am often asked: The Sherpas earn near to nothing, don’t they? But I learned from reliable sources that they earn comparatively much money and that they are really able to feed their families for one year with their income of an Everest climbing season. On the other hand, I understand that they don’t want to take these increased hazards any more.
Many climbers on Everest take advantage of the Sherpa support, but don’t talk about the fact that they are using it. In fact, there is a lack of appreciation. It would be nice if those who go to Everest would climb more on their own authority. They should seek more cooperation with the Sherpas, rather than only demanding what has to happen. The transport of material to the high camps, all the oxygen bottles, this has reached a level that I really fail to comprehend.

But Everest is a fully commercialized mountain. Isn’t it naive to think that anything will change? Due to the fact that there is so much infrastructure, Everest will always attract some people who don’t belong there, considering their mountaineering skills.

That’s true, for sure. In recent years, there were many people on Everest who actually had no relation to mountaineering but only wanted to realize their dream of climbing the highest mountain in the world – no matter the cost, no matter by what means. This has taken a direction that is absolutely not good. Quite the contrary. Maybe it’s really naive to think that this will change. But hope is the last to die.
Actually, everyone knows that we cannot continue in this way and that something has to happen. The only question is, what exactly. Many talk about it, me too. But in the end, no one has any real idea that could seriously make a difference and lead to change. The Sherpas revolt. Some told me that they don’t want to go to Everest anymore, because they have earned enough money. Many of them are now living abroad, many in America. Others continue to climb Everest because they need the money to give their children a good education. It’s really a sensitive and difficult issue.

My feeling is that the responsibility is shifted back and forth. The operators accuse the government and vice versa. The Sherpas complain about the operator and the government. But they don’t sit down around a table and agree on a common line.

That’s precisely what’s missing, that they all sit around a table, each putting back his ego a bit, committed to find a reasonable solution. And it doesn’t look as if it’s going to happen in the near future.

Base camp below the Everest North Face

Against this background, are you happy that you checked off the chapter Everest?

I don’t want to call it checked off. But I’m definitely happy that, in 2010, I had the good fortune to scale the mountain on a day when only very few people were climbing. It was snowing, it was cloudy, I had no view at the top. But it was quiet on the mountain. I can’t say that I enjoyed the time at the summit, because the climb had been just too strenuous. But I was glad to have made it.
Furthermore, we had pitched our tents in base camp below the North Face. We were alone, it was quiet there – at this really busy mountain. I enjoyed this loneliness and I’m still happy having experienced it this way.

In all the discussions about Everest, too often one point is not mentioned: that there is still the possibility to experience real mountaineering adventures on Everest, e.g. at the North Face or the Kangshung Face. There are still playgrounds, aren’t they?

Of course, for real mountaineers there is still plenty to do on Everest. I don’t know whether someone will go to the North Face this year. There you can find pure loneliness. In the base camp, you are only joined by snow grouses. Otherwise, it is extremely quiet, and you have the view of the North Face. You won’t meet anyone at the Kangshung Face too. Only the normal routes, where ropes are fixed up to top, are crowded. I don’t want to call all these people mountaineers. Of course, there are these and those kinds of people. But there are many people on Everest that really don’t belong there.

Ueli Steck at the ISPO

Actually, Ueli Steck only wanted to do an active holiday in Tibet in autumn 2014. The 38-year-old top climber from Switzerland planned to climb the eight-thousander Shishapangma with his wife Nicole via the normal route. It soon became clear that it would not be as easy as it seemed first because there was too much snow on the mountain. “But just sitting around in the base camp, that’s really not my thing”, Ueli told me last week at the trade fair ISPO in Munich. “Thus I accompanied the guys in their summit attempt.” These guys were the German ski mountaineers Benedikt Boehm, Sebastian Haag and Martin Maier and the Italian Andrea Zambaldi. In the summit area, an avalanche descended: Haag and Zambaldi died, Maier survived seriously injured. Only Steck and Boehm were not swept away by the avalanche. Reason enough to talk with Ueli about risk and luck:

Ueli, people say, a cat has nine lives. How many lives do you have?

Oh, how many lives? I have already been very lucky a few times. But I don’t count these experiences because that makes you just crazy. When you go to the mountains, you run a certain risk. And you just have to accept it.

Advanced Base Camp on Shishapangma

Last fall on Shishapangma, an avalanche that went off in the summit area killed the ski mountaineers Sebastian Haag and Andrea Zambaldi. You were there, how close was it for you?

It was only luck that Beni (Boehm) and I were standing a bit further up. We also stood in the avalanche zone, but just a little bit on the side where not so much snow slipped away. We didn’t lose our footing, while the others were swept away. It was very close.

In a situation like this, how much is luck, how much instinct?

It’s difficult to say. Instinct means making decisions unconsciously. That’s something you can’t measure. There are really people doing almost always the right thing, and people say, they are always lucky. But what is luck? Maybe you make the right decision instinctively and stand on the right place. I wouldn’t necessarily say I survived due to my instinct. But I would neither say it was just pure luck. I simply can’t explain it.

You’ve already experienced several situations such as this. For example in 2007, when you were hit by a stone on your head at the Annapurna South Face and fell down unconscious several hundred meters.

That was pure luck. The only misfortune in this situation was being hit by the stone, the rest was pure luck. This had nothing to do with instinct or whatever.

Ueli in the Annapurna South Face

How do you deal with such an experience? Do you have a professional handling so that you can start the next project free from bias or do you reflect it like a layman would do?

I am very concerned about it. I must admit, that the Annapurna story in 2013 (Ueli risked much as he soloed the South Face on a route that had not yet been completed until then. It took him only 28 hours for ascent and descent.) threw me right off the track. Actually, it is very simple: When we climb mountains we try to take good decisions and not to run too much risk. In the end, however, we just have to make it clear that once we go to the mountains, no matter on what level, we risk an accident. For me, it’s only either black or white. Either I just accept it or not. If I don’t accept it, I can’t go to the mountains. But climbing and all the experiences when I do it are simply too important for me and give me too much. Therefore I accept the risk.

Are you as a professional climber forced to take a greater risk to be recognized?

No, I‘m absolutely not forced to anything. I can do whatever I want. I make my decisions for myself. When I set off, I have prepared the project for so long that it is feasible. I don’t have in mind: If I survive, I make a profitable business out of it. If I set off, I want to come back. This is a decisive factor. But of course I am in a different league compared to those who make an easy hike. On this high-end level, the risk is automatically much higher.

Alone in the tent

You always try to push your personal limits. Is there no danger of stripping the screw? Is it possible to say at some point: Enough is enough, that was the riskiest thing I’ve done, now I turn back the screw a bit?

That is exactly what is so difficult, and I’m aware of that. For example Annapurna: I reflected what happened there, and I was concerned about it. Actually, I’m the only one who can really judge how much risk I took and how much commitment I put into the climb. And let me tell you, it was much. I even accepted that I probably would not come back alive. And that’s too much. It’s easy to say here at the table, I turn back the screw a bit. But it’s a huge process really to feel it, to be able to hold your horses without thinking you should go even further. Just now I can’t say: I will no longer go to the Himalayas. And I know, if I’m in this situation again, I will make the same decision as I did on Annapurna and accept that risk.

Not too long ago, you said that due to the high risk the time of your solo-climbs was over and that you would henceforth prefer climbing in teams. In 2011, you left for Shishapangma in twos, but in the end you climbed solo through the South Face. The same on Annapurna in 2013. Is it difficult for you to find equally strong partners?

At least I try. (laughs) It didn’t work twice. It’s difficult to find someone who is at the same level and can also translate it into action. I have just this experience of solo climbs, thus it is always an option. That will always be the same in my life. It also happened to me when I wanted to climb the Eiger North Face with a friend. At the foot of the wall he said he felt bad and wouldn’t join me. Then I had the option to say: The weather is nice, I’ll climb anyway. See you for a drink at the Kleine Scheidegg station buffet in the afternoon!

Others would turn around.

Yes, because they do not have this option. Therefore, I find myself in these situations again and again.

What will you do next?

I really try to turn back the screw a bit. I plan a traverse in the Alps, all four-thousanders, with (the German climber) Michi Wohlleben. We just want to have fun to climb. In fall, I’ll go to Nuptse where I and Colin Haley want to repeat the route of Valery Babanov in Alpine style.

For explanation: In 2003, the Russians Valery Babanov and Yuri Kosholenko for the first time succeeded in reaching the summit of 7,804-meter-high Nuptse East (in the neighborhood of Mount Everest) via the South Pillar. They fixed ropes up to 6,400 meters – what resulted in a heated debate about their style of climbing. The route “had been desecrated by bolts and fixed ropes”, criticized US-climber Steve House, who had reached an altitude of 7,200 meters on the same route in Alpine Style in 2002. Babanov countered: “The mountain is waiting, you just need to go there and climb it!” That’s exactly what Ueli wants to do now.

Ralf Dujmovits at the ISPO

His bookmark is still in the book of Everest. Ralf Dujmovits scaled all 14 eight-thousanders, as the only German so far. Only on Mount Everest in 1992, Ralf used bottled oxygen – something that the 53-year-old sees as a blemish by today. This spring, Ralf wants to travel to the highest mountain in the world for the already seventh time, for the fourth time to the Tibetan north side. Last year Dujmovits reached there an altitude of 8,300 meters on the northeast ridge. At that time he got angry about his own mistakes. And so Ralf’s repeatedly announced “definitely last” attempt on Everest became once again just his most recent try. This year, he wants to climb in a team with the Canadian Nancy Hansen. I met Ralf at the trade fair ISPO in Munich and asked him about his Everest plans:

Ralf and Mount Everest, a never ending story?

Not endless. Last year I said, it would be definitely my last attempt. But I couldn’t stop thinking about it, because I just didn’t feel that I had been given a real chance. Now I want to allow myself another chance, hoping that I can do my very best and that I am not blown away by the wind. If I have to turn around again then, it would be a totally different story. But at least I want to set off towards the summit and to do my utmost.

Camp 1 on Everest North Col

It seems to me that you created a new definition of “definitely”. Do you avoid the wording “my definitely last attempt” this time?

I learned that one should never say never. I don’t want to say “definitely no more” this time. I am so motivated at the moment. And I feel that I got so fit by intensive training that I simply don’t want to exclude anything, even in the event of failure. But of course, you become more reserved and cautious. I think that’s right. It all must fit together if you make for such a high destination and if you want to have a real chance there.

To put it in positive terms, you are in your early fifties, in less positive words, you approach your mid fifties. Has it become more difficult for you to prepare for such an extreme project?

I am still very motivated and don’t have any problem to train. I realize that I have to concentrate on training, not doing too many other things. I just returned  from Antarctica (Ralf led a commercial expedition to Mount Vinson, the highest mountain of the white continent). That was fairly intense mountain sports. But nonetheless it was not as intensive as a good training. After four weeks, doing almost nothing in Antarctica, I have a real training deficit. In this respect, I have to continue my efforts consistently in order to reach the level of fitness that I should have for Everest. And I will only set off again if I have the feeling that everything matches.

Do you feel that you turn around much faster now than before?

Maybe I love life more than before. Getting older, I also appreciate all the beautiful things besides mountaineering. I don’t have to prove anything to anyone anymore, but I just want to make it for myself. Probably I really turn around easier because I don’t feel any pressure. I want to make it for myself, but also want to return safely. So that I can simply be much more reserved.

Ralf at Everest high camp (in 2014)

You climbed on Everest from both sides, on different routes, in many attempts. What do you plan this time?

First I will take enough time to get used to high altitude, then I will set off well acclimatized towards the summit. I have not yet decided which route I will finally take, after we will have acclimatized on the north ridge. It depends on the conditions and on how we feel. I do not want to say much in advance. I think, if I feel good, I can also take a different route than the northeast ridge, which is exposed to wind on an endless distance. But I will decide at the very end.

Do you expect more climbers on the Tibetan north side of Everest this spring due to last year’s events on the Nepalese south side?

I have been following intensively which commercial operators really switched to the north side. Actually, it is only Alpenglow, an operator that had mostly very small groups in recent years. I think there will be some more climbers than normal. But it will certainly not be the big hype as it was on the north side in earlier days. For the simple reason that it still remains uncertain, especially for Americans, to get a permit for China.

But you have no problems with the Chinese?

I have no problems because I go there only for mountaineering and afterwards push off. There are other things that can be discussed. But I don’t want to mix mountaineering with something different.